Lottery, Racing, etc

[joke n]

Also something in the 1927 chart. The 1927 chart has sag rising, Jupiter/ASC ruler intercepted in Pisces and sextile Venus in taurus, rules 5 th of gambling. both strong in sign

The eclips with cheiron was conjunct the sun ! In the fourth. Sun rules the 9 th . Thing’s abroad etc. but the sun is also the royal family. really works here. as well. SR with an eclipse and sun cheiron in the fourth.... !
in about a 6 months, if this chart is exact. you get prim-van dam- saturn/ruler of the 2nd conjunct the sun. financial problems or anything about the royals.
tr cheiron is also exact conjunct the primary ASC/Saturn. ruler of the 2nd. again somehting financial.

And Uranus, Jupiter conjunction on cusp 6 th. The army , or the NHS ?
interesting because prim -van dam- venus/ruler of the 6th also made a square to the asc.

 

[etherea]

So, the Saturday races in the UK - there are several in the evening, which are the last ones here in the UK which are obviously nearing the Ju/Ur conjunction.

As there are races in the US, and as far as I can gather, we in the UK are allowed to place bets for US races with UK bookies, but I've not yet found a suitable site which lists them all, in order to do the "due diligence" with astro analysis using Wehrmann's method and thus, I have not included them here. However, those races would presumably run even closer to the Ju/Ur conjunction. I have read that the payouts for US horse races can be quote/unquote: "colossal".

I googled to see how long might be an average time for a racehorse to run a mile (1min 36 seconds), and ditto a furlong (12 seconds), to give the potential chart most accuracy.

Using the latest copy of Racing Post (racingpost.com), I found the following

Thirsk, 7.05pm - length of race = 6 furlongs (estimated 72 seconds);
Nottingham, 8pm - race length = 5 furlongs, 8yds (estimated plus/minus 60 seconds); and
Brighton, 7.50pm - race length = 1 x mile (estimated 1min 36 secs).

Using the start time plus estimated running time, the Thirsk race (for example) would end at 7.06 and 12 seconds;
Nottingham 8.01; and
Brighton, 7.51 and 36 seconds.

Obviously, those timings are subject to late starts, or super-fast horses, etc. so cannot be pin-point accurate. In the event of a chart having a late or early Ascendant or the same with house cusps, this becomes a big variable.

I will post an example chart, following, for the Thirsk race, Saturday 20th April, 19.06:12secs

 

[etherea]

So, Libra Ascendant, with Venus in Aries in 6h conjunct Chiron and Desc. Un-aspected, so = strong. Venus is parallel to both Mercury and Saturn.

Runners are:

Smalley Time
Willow Baby
Code Purple
Dr. Rio
Kaidu
Enderman
Hailey Ya Mal
Langham
Tantalus
Stormy Pearl
Eldeyaar
Kitbag
Ben Dikduk
Sound of Iona
Frank the Spark
Elladora
Peachey Carnehan
Hombre
Bingley Crocker
Mr Trevor
Flyingdale
Yazaman
Irish Dancer
Time to Spark
One for the Ladies
Yaahobby
Mc's Wag
Dandy's Gold
Atrafan
Aclaim to Fame
Dodgy Bob

Here is my thinking.
MC is in Cancer ruled by Moon, therefore a favourite would ordinarily be expected to win. However, Moon is in 12h, and in opposition to Mars, Saturn and Neptune, so some kind of 'spanner in the works' may be going on (maybe pulled out before the race...??). However, Moon also is in sextile to that MC, so am not entirely sure.

My choice for the winner using Wehrmann's method, going by Asc and its ruler in Aries, is "Stormy (Aries, Chiron) Pearl" (Venus, e.g. jewellery of value).

Having said that, there are several horse names that mean absolutely nothing to me whatsoever, so I may be missing something important in relation to Venus, Mars (Aries) or Chiron with those missing areas of understanding.

Bearing that in mind, I would also be entertaining:

Dandy's Gold (value, pride, etc, although this has more of a Sun energy - note that Sun is trine to h48 on that day);
Aclaim to Fame (Venus);
Time to Spark (Venus parallel to Saturn and note POF conjunct Saturn also, but POF also contra-parallel to both Ve/Sat);
Elladora (eminently female energy = Venus) and also;
Sound of Iona (Venus corresponds with music).


It's not a huge payout of a race (£7k) - none of the late races in the UK on that day are - but still good for learning.

 

[etherea]

For the 2nd place, using turned houses, Pluto becomes ruler and is found in Aq in 3h, trine Moon and square to Sun.

For 3rd place, Jupiter becomes ruler and is found in Taurus in 6h. Again, trine to Moon, and conjunct Uranus.

What would other members consider might be contenders for those placements, using those rulerships, signs, houses?

As a throwaway choice, I might put 'Dodgy Bob" for 2nd (Scorpio and the Underworld connotation), and 'Frank the Spark' for 3rd (the Uranus factor)

 

[joke n]

just for fun.... is it possible to make an online bet ?
how difficult with so many names etc.
its also so personal to choose.

but here i go;
1- this one is difficult. because venus is in detriment in aries. and just gone to the 6th house and conjunct cheiron. could it be an injury or disqualification ?, so here i will give another number 1 (number/ruler 2 becomes number 1, number/ruler 3 becomes number 2, number/ruler 4 becomes number 3.

1- i would use mars as a second house ruler. mars is on cusp 6 in pisces. mars comes from a conjunction with saturn and opposite the moon. moon and saturn are about timing. mars in pisces isnt happy, but here in 6th house he has to work; so TIME TO SPARK
2- jupiter is conjunct uranus in taurus in 8 th. i would go for STORMY PEARL. jupiter is also connected to mars, so jupiter, uranus and mars are about the storm, and taurus about the pearl..
3-saturn is in pisces in the 5th house. conjunct the pof and mars, the malefic here and contraparalel southnode. i would go for TANTALUS. myth about a rich king, maybe the son of Zeus, also he steals, offers his son etc.. .5th house theme.
just saw that my favourites have a low top speed...

 

[etherea]

just for fun.... is it possible to make an online bet ?
how difficult with so many names etc.
its also so personal to choose.

but here i go;
1- this one is difficult. because venus is in detriment in aries. and just gone to the 6th house and conjunct cheiron. could it be an injury or disqualification ?, so here i will give another number 1 (number/ruler 2 becomes number 1, number/ruler 3 becomes number 2, number/ruler 4 becomes number 3.

1- i would use mars as a second house ruler. mars is on cusp 6 in pisces. mars comes from a conjunction with saturn and opposite the moon. moon and saturn are about timing. mars in pisces isnt happy, but here in 6th house he has to work; so TIME TO SPARK
2- jupiter is conjunct uranus in taurus in 8 th. i would go for STORMY PEARL. jupiter is also connected to mars, so jupiter, uranus and mars are about the storm, and taurus about the pearl..
3-saturn is in pisces in the 5th house. conjunct the pof and mars, the malefic here and contraparalel southnode. i would go for TANTALUS. myth about a rich king, maybe the son of Zeus, also he steals, offers his son etc.. .5th house theme.
just saw that my favourites have a low top speed...

I can see the logic behind all of this, definitely. It's not Wehrmann's technique (which was for her, very successful), but then again, you may be improving on hers!! She did mention that many astrologers were using their own technique, so the only way to really find out if your version works, is to test it.

Yes, not easy when there are lots of names. What makes it even harder is when the names don't correlate to anything we know - that is when the astrological correspondence becomes non-visible, so it is as though we are deciding whilst blindfold.

Online betting - indeed, there are plenty of sites for that (here is one: https://sports.coral.co.uk/horse-racing/future) and several will offer betting for events in their country and others. However, I think there are also different legal positions in different countries for those who place bets (including the position on taxation of winnings). I think I am correct in saying that some will not allow their own citizens to place bets on foreign events, so it is wise to check your country's legislature on that. In the UK, we can bet on international events online or with a bookie (if they offer it).

Interesting also that we selected two names in common, but for different reasons. I did think about the Pearl association with Taurus, too - I agree with that.

 

[etherea]

Another chart - for the Kentucky Derby at Louisville (USA) on 3 May 2024, which track is 1.25 miles long, begins at 11.30 am and an estimated 2 minutes running time for that length, so estimated end time of race = 11.32am.

The runners are listed as follows:

Sierra Leone
Fierceness
Forever Young
Catching Freedom
Stronghold
Just a Touch
Dornoch
Encino
Endlessly
Honor Marie
Mystik Dan
Resilience
Domestic Product
Just Steel
T O Password
Deterministic
Track Phantom
Epic Ride
Society Man
Catalytic
El Grando
Seize the Grey
West Saratoga
Grand Mo the First
Hades
Uncle Heavy


I am immediately drawn to "Uncle Heavy" as a possible contender for winning, owing to the Asc ruler, Moon, conjunct Saturn ("heavy") and Moon = family ("uncle").

Also, Forever (takes a long time = Saturn) Young (Moon).

Perhaps also, Domestic (Moon) Product (tangible item as a result of work = Saturn)

Three contenders for first place. In this instance, I would probably place a bet on all three

Anybody else's thoughts on this.........and the 2nd/3rd place?

 

[joke n]

Yes, don’t have Wehrman’s book.
But here I would think of moon in Pisces in the 8 th; mystic Dan
But indeed, can relate to your options as well
2nd one; sun in 10 conjunct Venus in taurus, society man
3 rd one, mercury conjunct cheiron in Aries 10 and node; epic ride
Hope others join as well

 

[etherea]

Correcting the Kentucky chart, as it falls on the 4th, not the 3rd and the timing of the race is given differently on different sites, so will do a bit more homework on this.

 

[etherea]

Very confusing info out there - one site gave the start time as 11.30 (UK site, so may not have been clear about which timezone was being used, and gives no clarification) but Miami Herald gives 18.57 as start time, thus 18.59 = approximate end of race time.

https://www.miamiherald.com/betting/article274672271.html

The MC using this time, has just passed from Cancer to Leo, perhaps indicating that the favourite didn't quite make it as winner or perhaps didn't actually run (variable could be that the race is completed in under 2 minutes, in which case the Asc could still be Moon).

Pluto is angular at IC, in wide trine to Ju/Ur conjunct.

Venus is chart ruler, conjunct Sun in Taurus, 7h I would consider for this placement Honor Marie (20/1) especially in relation to the trine with POF in 11h and also keep the other Moon/Neptune-based choices (Track Phantom, Mystik Dan, Endlessly, Forever Young) as my picks, bearing in mind the split-second timing relating to MC.

 

[etherea]

Also cast a horary (as Wehrman advises) just now, to see if my selecting the winner is a possibility, and here is what came up:



Moon is chart ruler but the next question is: which house cusp/ planet denotes the winner/winnings? (There are many differences of opinion about this).
If we take 5h ruled by Mercury, then the answer is no.
If we take the 10h (Aquarius), the answer is yes, a substantial chance of a substantial (Taurus) win with a suprise winner.
If we take the 11h cusp, then it is Neptune, and the answer is yes, but there are 'goings-on' that create that situation, and the fixed star Pegasus energy is high, here.

POF placement indicates a Scorpio-tone to the winner, the more so given the opposition to Jupiter/Uranus and the sextile to chart ruler, Moon.
MC indicates a surprise result.

The obvious outsider with that Scorpio tone as well as the surprise factor is "Hades" -with 66/1 odds.

 

[joke n]

Maybe it’s also good to show a chart of a race that was in the past. To look with it on hindsight.
The contenders, the winners ?

I was looking at the times they choose let’s say, lottery numbers. Some say approximately, others give a range of 2 hours.

 

[etherea]

Maybe it’s also good to show a chart of a race that was in the past. To look with it on hindsight.
The contenders, the winners ?

I was looking at the times they choose let’s say, lottery numbers. Some say approximately, others give a range of 2 hours.

It's a really good idea.

I will dig around later today and see if I can find anything that gives accurate end time of a race plus contenders/winners, yes.

In passing, I was unable to place bets on the Kentucky Derby race on 4 May yesterday evening as I had planned in order to sweep up the Ur/Ju conjunction energy, as they only open the bets a few days prior. This is owing to allowance for withdrawal of runners/riders, so the final list is yet to be declared.

 

[etherea]

Thirsk, Saturday 20th April, 2024

19:05 Thirsk - 20 April 2024 - Results - Horse Racing - Sporting Life

Full result with video replay from the Follow vickersracing On X Handicap at Thirsk

www.sportinglife.com

19:05 Thirsk - 20th April 2024 Results - Sun Racing | The Sun

Get the full horse race result from the 19:05 at Thirsk on the 20th April 2024

www.thesun.co.uk

This is very interesting as the Racing Post newspaper printed the runners for the 18.35hrs race as the runners for the 19.05 race. A mix-up from one of the main, and most trusted information sources for horse-racing in the UK...!!! Neptune must be prominently over the chart of race, the paper or the person who creates the listings.
The two sites linked above are unlikely to both be incorrect with the same mistake - Thus, I shan't buy that paper again, or at least, I shall cross-check between sites and print, before deciding anything.

Edited to add: just checked the racingpost.com website, and it concurs with the two links above, so basically, their site contradicts their printed newspaper information.

19.05hrs planned starting time, but the actual starting time was 19.06hrs.

Results:

Time taken for completion of race by winner: 2m, 46:28 seconds for distance of 1mile, 4 furlongs, 8yards.

Winning horse:
Two Brothers (jockey = Billy Garrity), odds at 20/1 (ie was not the Favourite to win).

2nd place: Fleur de Mer (odds of 14/1)
3rd place: Torcello (odds of 16/1)

Total list of runners:

Faylaq
Strawman
Fairbanks
Forza Orta
Roost
Arrange
To Catch a Thief
Emiyn
Charging Thunder
Dark Moon Rising
Kardia

(two listed horses did not run, i.e.Tessy Lad, Mr le Philosophe)

I will post the chart for the planned ending time, and also for the actual ending time, so we can see the disparity.

I have not yet created the chart but with a winner by that name, any astrologer worth their salt would be considering a Gemini or Mercury influence in there, somewhere.

 

[etherea]

Chart for planned start time (19.05) + running time =
1 mile (1 min, 36 seconds)
4 furlongs (4 x 12 seconds = 48 seconds)
8 yards (approximately 4 yds per second, therefore = 2 seconds)
Total time: 2 minutes, 26 seconds

Added to 19.05hrs
End time of race = 19.07:26hrs

Here is the chart for the intended starting time with calculated ending time:

 

[etherea]

And here is the chart for the actual ending time, which was 2 minutes 46:28 seconds, added to 19.06hrs starting time =
19.08hrs 46:28seconds:


And....Venus ruler, Moon on MC.
Venus conjunct Mercury and Chiron in Aries, 6h, on Descendant. Other than the conjunction with each other, they are un-aspected.

I would not have picked the winner on this one
Neither would I have picked the correct 2nd place (Fleur de Mer sounds much more Neptunian than Plutonian)
Or the 3rd.

I can see the 9h cusp of racing and winning is ruled by Mercury, but using 9h cusp isn't the system by which Wehrman won so many races.

I will see if I can cross-check further about the confusion between the 18.35hrs and the 19.05hrs races, because this chart appears not to fit the runners at all (according to Wehrman's method).

 

[etherea]

If I add Ptolomean Terms (Lilly) to the chart, then Descendant, Chiron, Venus and Mercury are all in Mercury's terms - and so is the Ascendant.

This is interesting and I will check this out with other charts. That is the only way in which this chart fits the winning name.

The turned 2h cusp as Ascendant is in terms of Venus, with Descendant on Jupiter (which traditionally ruled Pisces).

I don't want to 'clutch at straws', but this additional info might be useful. If it doesn't work, then - discard!!

 

[joke n]

its easier to look afterwards.
tried to follow the book. her orbs are very small. so here i would doubt if 1 degree of venus to the asc fits. it is applying though..
the moon is sextile the mc, but because her orbs are so tight, i dont know if 2 degrees is to big. somewhere else she used 30 min for the moon and mars. the rest was 15 min. ?

1-aspects (to the asc, cusp, mc) take precedence. here its an opposition with venus to the asc. its actually the ruler. the opposition; "bring in those which are neiter favored nor really long shots". that seems to fit. the orb is 1 degree though.
two brothers won ,
2- nature of the sign of the asc. here she takes things quite simple. the sign on the asc was libra, dual air sign and ruler conjunct mercury. so this could be about the two brothers. of all he picks this one seems nice. venus seems also the connection of the brothers. gemini would be easier though altough she refers to the rulership book. mercury is also abouth brothers.

fleur de mer 2nd place
scorpio; water sign, then i would use mars as the ruler of scorpio. so you would have mars in pisces in 5th conjunct neptune and opp moon. pisces and neptune , moon are connected to the sea, scorpio water sign. dont know if i would use one of the other names.
with this turned asc. this cusp gets an inconjunct of venus. this would indicate the really long shots. ??

torcello 3rd place
cusp 3 is sag with jupiter conjunct uranus in taurus in 8. she said that with sag you could use everything foreign.
but for me forza orta also seems foreign. but here torcello is an island above Venice. so maybe this one is also obvious.
this ( turned asc) cusp also gets a square from saturn. here it would also be someone which is neiter favored nor really long shots

there are so many things to considerate. your own chart with actual transits, the promise in your chart. the actual timing with the connection with the 5th and in the 2nd. no transit with saturn/neptune. and transpluto which is different from pluto. ??

in my chart i have a connection with jupiter, ruler of the 2nd house and mars, ruler of the 5th. because mars runs retrograde it is an applying aspect. altough angular, they dont have to much strength. now with tr jupiter/uranus conjunct ruler of the 2nd, and soon trine mars, i was looking at the timing for the lottery. i made up a chart for the eurolottery in Helsinki. last saturday they gave a time of aprox (?!) 20 hrs.
cusp 8 was just 1 degree separating conjunct my jupiter, ruler of the 2nd,. so thats such a narrow road you have to go. i won nothing. altough there were more transits etc active.
You never know the exact time there.
other loterys gave a range of 2 hours. so if i would take a bet i should take some coins to the slot machine and look at the astroclock to see when ruler of the 5th is in the 2nd. and wait that or sag or jupiter is connected to one of them. its a whole study...
the horse race is also questionable because when the first race is delayed. the whole schedule changes..

 

[etherea]

its easier to look afterwards.
tried to follow the book. her orbs are very small. so here i would doubt if 1 degree of venus to the asc fits. it is applying though..
the moon is sextile the mc, but because her orbs are so tight, i dont know if 2 degrees is to big. somewhere else she used 30 min for the moon and mars. the rest was 15 min. ?

1-aspects (to the asc, cusp, mc) take precedence. here its an opposition with venus to the asc. its actually the ruler. the opposition; "bring in those which are neiter favored nor really long shots". that seems to fit. the orb is 1 degree though.
two brothers won ,
2- nature of the sign of the asc. here she takes things quite simple. the sign on the asc was libra, dual air sign and ruler conjunct mercury. so this could be about the two brothers. of all he picks this one seems nice. venus seems also the connection of the brothers. gemini would be easier though altough she refers to the rulership book. mercury is also abouth brothers.

fleur de mer 2nd place
scorpio; water sign, then i would use mars as the ruler of scorpio. so you would have mars in pisces in 5th conjunct neptune and opp moon. pisces and neptune , moon are connected to the sea, scorpio water sign. dont know if i would use one of the other names.
with this turned asc. this cusp gets an inconjunct of venus. this would indicate the really long shots. ??

torcello 3rd place
cusp 3 is sag with jupiter conjunct uranus in taurus in 8. she said that with sag you could use everything foreign.
but for me forza orta also seems foreign. but here torcello is an island above Venice. so maybe this one is also obvious.
this ( turned asc) cusp also gets a square from saturn. here it would also be someone which is neiter favored nor really long shots

there are so many things to considerate. your own chart with actual transits, the promise in your chart. the actual timing with the connection with the 5th and in the 2nd. no transit with saturn/neptune. and transpluto which is different from pluto. ??

in my chart i have a connection with jupiter, ruler of the 2nd house and mars, ruler of the 5th. because mars runs retrograde it is an applying aspect. altough angular, they dont have to much strength. now with tr jupiter/uranus conjunct ruler of the 2nd, and soon trine mars, i was looking at the timing for the lottery. i made up a chart for the eurolottery in Helsinki. last saturday they gave a time of aprox (?!) 20 hrs.
cusp 8 was just 1 degree separating conjunct my jupiter, ruler of the 2nd,. so thats such a narrow road you have to go. i won nothing. altough there were more transits etc active.
You never know the exact time there.
other loterys gave a range of 2 hours. so if i would take a bet i should take some coins to the slot machine and look at the astroclock to see when ruler of the 5th is in the 2nd. and wait that or sag or jupiter is connected to one of them. its a whole study...
the horse race is also questionable because when the first race is delayed. the whole schedule changes..

Indeed, much easier with hindsight...!!! But a good exercise for analysis, to fine-tune one's choices. Her advice about 'being on the wheel', e.g. tight orbs from cusps or planets in the chart, to one's natal chart rulers of money/winning elements, is key.

The rulership of Scorpio being Mars for 2nd place - this indicates that using traditional rulerships is the way to go. Wehrman has not stated this, but it is a useful thing to bear in mind. Also, with the turned houses/2nd place, Cancer is on MC which adds to the watery energy.

I also agree that using this technique for doing the lottery over such a long timespan (20 hours) is next to impossible, especially with the Eurolotto, as the number of players/tickets is vast. It might be worth requesting (from them) the end time of the draw for the last few games for a general yardstick, but as in any future game this would vary wildly with the number of people buying a docket, it cannot offer anything other than a rough guess (unless you play a much smaller lottery game - but even then, Wehrman does state that timing for a win can be a matter of seconds).

In this instance, I would go with what member Spica wrote in the discussion on ADF, e.g. that fine-tuning the time of buying the ticket gives the best chance. Also, I recall that with the winner's charts she selected, there were significant progressions going on when they bought the ticket.

 

[joke n]

i was looking at her small orbs of transits with my examples of lottery winners. despite of all the progressions etc.
they both had a few transits. at least 1 of the transits had the small orb. interesting was that there were also separating transits with a few degrees orb.
she gives the moon and mars with 30 minutes, and the rest with 15 minutes. altough im not sure if its just at the event chart where a cusp is connected to a natal planet.

Colin
tr saturn/ruler of the 5th sextile pluto with 3 min. applying. this falls in her orb
tr uranus trine saturn/ ruler 5th , a separating aspect were tr uranus was retrograde , so applying and 25 min. altough tight, she would use 15 min.
tr jupiter conjunct venus/ruler 2nd separating aspect , more then 1 degree

Bruce
tr venus/ruler 2nd conjunct moon/ruler 5th -separating aspect with more then 2 degrees
tr BML trine vens/uler 2nd house applying with 13 minutes. this one also fits her small orb.

do you know where you can find the placements of transpluto ?