Lottery, Racing, etc

[etherea]

We had a thread on this on Astro.com, with many people posting all sorts of methods and theories about people who have won, charts indicating wins, etc.

Joyce Wehrman wrote about her particular methods, which she used extensively to win at horse-racing over and above the standard "odds". She created thousands and thousands of charts to develop her findings at the races, as well as at casinos, etc. Her book was called "Winning!".

She makes plain that it is about doing the work, e.g. casting the charts, and interpreting the charts accurately, and the methods have to be applied diligently. Her personal experience was that the losing times, as well as the winning times, enabled her to refine her methods. She embraced the losses as a learning tool. She equated the charts with what is essentially, a horary method.

Two things stand out about her method, other than the standard correct data of time, place, etc.:

The Koch House System; and
TransPluto (h48)

Also, her charts were calculated for the time of the end of the race, not the beginning, which is an interesting divergence from standard astrological teaching.

Her natal chart:

Joyce C. Wehrman, horoscope for birth date 19 December 1935, born in Denver, with Astrodatabank biography

Horoscope and astrology data of Joyce C. Wehrman born on 19 December 1935 Denver, Colorado, with biography

www.astro.com

You can find her book text online at scribd or booksfree.

NB: If you are going to read and apply her methods, follow her golden rules e.g.: be sensible, and don't gamble money you cannot afford to lose.
Also, don't imagine you will get smart at this straight away - it will take time, effort and skill, like anything else. Her method is not a "Get Rich Quick" scheme.

Also, your own chart has to be examined in context.

I have little doubt there are other equivalent astrological methods (she mentions how many US astrologers had their own, and used them extensively - especially (like her) the Koch House system).

For investments and money markets in general, there is the Gann Method, for which tuition can also be provided.

Feel free to post others.

I might have a little flutter for the Grand National, upcoming for 13 April 2024, to test out my understanding of her method. Other than an odd Euromillions ticket, I don't gamble, but my natal chart does fall into the categories she cites as being a potential winner. Obviously, her categorisation only applies if it actually works.

The actual length of time taken for this race varies from the record of just under 9 minutes, to 12 minutes, so her finely tuned timing of (maximum) 30 to (recommended) 15 arc minutes isn't an easy thing to accurately calculate for the house cusps, with this particular event.

 

[etherea]

Wehrman's natal chart was spectacularly well placed for her subject.

She stated that Jupiter and Sagittarius placements were good for this practice, and in her own case, Jupiter was exactly conjunct her MC, so she was already (as the parlance goes) a "front-runner" but there are other features. Below is her chart using Placidus, and I will also post her natal using Koch.

 

[etherea]

Here is the Koch version of her natal - I have included h48, TransPluto/Isis in this chart, which falls at what has often been referred to as "the Millionaire's Degree", e.g. anaretic Cancer:



She mentions Fixed Stars in her event charts also, and in her own, she has her MC/IC axis falling across Ares/Antares.

The orbs she specified are extremely tight, but that natal POF conjunct Jupiter was probably more than operational. Sagittarius is, of course, the sign relating to horses and horsemanship.

 

[etherea]

Approximate time for duration of this race is 9 minutes, hence, chart for Aintree on Sat 13th April is set for 16.09hrs and, as per her theory, have used Koch House System.

The final list of runners are apparently announced only a couple of days prior, so as the saying goes, 'hold your horses', but here is the current list:

Grand National Runners & Odds 2024 | Runners & Riders List

Find out the confirmed Grand National runners for Aintree, with our 2024 Grand National runners list, horse-by-horse guide & betting odds.

www.grandnational.org.uk

With the Virgo Ascendant with the propensity for neatness, purity, critical tendencies, etc. I am eyeing up Good Boy Bobby, Angels Dawn, and Amirite. Because of the rulership of Mercury and its association with male youth, I am also looking at Panda Boy, which is one of the favourites.

However, Mercury is Rx in Aries and conjunct the Sun and Chiron, so that puts things in a different and less fortuitous light.

 

[etherea]

This thread isn't intended to only be about this race, however. If you have charts of lottery winners, or something else associated that you would be interested in discussing, please feel free to post, question, chat, etc.

 

[joke n]

great, i had the eclips in my 5th house. natal 5th and 2nd connection.
and tr uranus , jupiter /ruler of my 2nd house trine ruler of my 5th house soon..

We also looked in our section on ADF forum with several charts. and there was also a connection with the 5th house (gambling) and 2nd house(income) in the natal chart. like Wehrman. there were also hits with different techniques.
im searching in the astrodatabase, but I don't always see this 2nd and 5th connection. i did see a lot of charts with planets in the 5th.

Here is an AA example of someone who won 161 million pounds on July 12, 2011.

In this birth chart , the trad ruler of the 5th house/gambling, Saturn, is conjunct Pluto and is the apex of a T-square to Chiron in 2, and Venus/Mars in 8. The money houses. also a sextile to sun/north node. saturn in leo is in aspect to its dispositor/the sun. antiscia jupiter on cusp 5
2011 was profection 5th house with trad ruler ( in the SR ;contacts again with well-placed Saturn and Venus/Mars. and SR ruler 5 in pofection sign- SR ASC inconjunct saturn)
sec saturn/ruler 5th was conjunct natal pluto. timing..
sec sun was conjunct natal saturn/ruler 5th. disp conjunct the 5th house ruler.
tr uranus trine saturn/ruler 5th.
tr saturn/ruler 5th sextile pluto
tr cheiron inconjunct saturn/ruler 5th.
tr jupiter conjunct venus. /asc ruler

also the continuous medieval profection chart for this day
DESC conjunct saturn.
ASC in aqua.
IC conjunct venus.

so much going on around the promise of the natal chart.. and the profection ruler !
im afraid my chart is not this active...

 

[etherea]

This is the chart for the Aintree event which kicks off at 4pm today:




Ascendant is ruled by Mercury, found in Aries 8h, so a potent Mars/Pluto tone.
Moon is OOB, and in 10h, indicating that a favourite will win.

Several of the horses which "fit" the astrology in terms of Virgo chart rulership, are now off the finalised list.

There are several Mercury-themed names on the final list, but the one with the Aries overtone is "I Am Maximus", so that will be one of my picks for race winner (and is one of the favourites).

For the horse coming in 3rd, we have Scorpio rulership, where the POF also lies. The POF is trine to TransPluto, so it may be that this placement provides a good winnings.

I will put a fiver each on Foxy Jacks and Meeting of the Waters for third place, and see how that plays out (am totally willing to be a dismal failure at this, in order to participate in the Learning Curve).

As for Mars/Saturn on Descendant, this will be part of the Curve, to see what happens with this kind of thing on the angle. I am hoping this does not indicate a horse in distress.

 

[etherea]

I also recall from ADF that member Spica posted about the time of placing the bets also showing as being important in her case studies of relevant charts. For this reason, I am waiting for the overhead Chart of the Moment to touch my natal TransPluto, before I take that step today.

Edited to add: I changed my mind, and went to place the bets when Chart of the Moment MC was conjunct Venus. Since natal Venus is currently well-activated, this weighted my decision.

Perhaps I should have split things, e.g. some when Venus was on MC, and some when TransPluto was on Asc of CofM. The Learning Curve....we shall see.

 

[etherea]

great, i had the eclips in my 5th house. natal 5th and 2nd connection.
and tr uranus , jupiter /ruler of my 2nd house trine ruler of my 5th house soon..

We also looked in our section on ADF forum with several charts. and there was also a connection with the 5th house (gambling) and 2nd house(income) in the natal chart. like Wehrman. there were also hits with different techniques.
im searching in the astrodatabase, but I don't always see this 2nd and 5th connection. i did see a lot of charts with planets in the 5th.

Here is an AA example of someone who won 161 million pounds on July 12, 2011.

In this birth chart , the trad ruler of the 5th house/gambling, Saturn, is conjunct Pluto and is the apex of a T-square to Chiron in 2, and Venus/Mars in 8. The money houses. also a sextile to sun/north node. saturn in leo is in aspect to its dispositor/the sun. antiscia jupiter on cusp 5
2011 was profection 5th house with trad ruler ( in the SR ;contacts again with well-placed Saturn and Venus/Mars. and SR ruler 5 in pofection sign- SR ASC inconjunct saturn)
sec saturn/ruler 5th was conjunct natal pluto. timing..
sec sun was conjunct natal saturn/ruler 5th. disp conjunct the 5th house ruler.
tr uranus trine saturn/ruler 5th.
tr saturn/ruler 5th sextile pluto
tr cheiron inconjunct saturn/ruler 5th.
tr jupiter conjunct venus. /asc ruler

also the continuous medieval profection chart for this day
DESC conjunct saturn.
ASC in aqua.
IC conjunct venus.

so much going on around the promise of the natal chart.. and the profection ruler !
im afraid my chart is not this active...

@joke n
This is interesting about the conjunction of Saturn/Pluto, as in other contexts, this would probably not be seen as a beneficial contact.

Saturn = timing, for sure, and was definitely showing up Big-Time in this chart.

I note that natal Sun for this chart is conjunct NN - Wehrmann states that in this context, NN is a financial point, which appears to be borne out by natal promise.

In passing, I once knew someone who consistently earned at least £3-4K per month on horse-racing winnings, to which she attributed her significant knowledge of horses, jockeys, race-tracks, etc. I never saw her chart, but something must have been kicking off regularly - probably her Moon, with that frequency of timing. I suspected a 6h connection, as her winnings essentially became her basic lifestyle funds. She re-invested £300 each month for the next month's races. She never won less than £3k per month - and that was a long while ago. I cannot say I share her knowledge of all things equine, but will stick to the refinement of the astrology route..!!

Ref. your point about other techniques, do you please have any links to these, off-hand?

 

[etherea]

I did pick the winner (I Am Maximus), so I suspect I have got the basic hang of Wehrmann's technique (and £35 coming to me, which is exactly what I had placed for all my picks, so I am not out of pocket for the education).

However, the following placements (2nd and 3rd place) were taken by runners I had not selected, so that needs fine-tuning. I would not, for example, have placed Delta Work anywhere with a Libra house cusp for 2h as I would not have made any associations with Venus for that name, nor indeed, Minella Indo for the Scorpio house cusp of 3h (indeed, total blank for that one).

 

[etherea]

Back to the theme of Lucky Winners, and here is another chart from ADB of another such winner (female, name Katya, born 14 July 1968 in Wilhelmshaven, Germany, tob = 9hrs46):

In September of 1983, she won 64K DeutscheMark (the precise date was not given on ADB ( https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Research:Lucky_Winner_40112); I have therefore attached the chart for mid-September and it follows that the positions of the personal planets are therefore in question) at aged 16.

Having said that, I could not help but notice Mars on transiting TransPluto, plus the presence of both transiting Pluto and Saturn (ruler of natal 5h of gambling) in her natal 2h, as well as Jupiter/Uranus conjunct in her natal 3h (with Jupiter in domicile, and which could possibly have been conjunct exactly, at the time of her win):



Whether or not Sun was actually still on natal Pluto, and likewise Mercury on natal Uranus, is an unknown because of the lack of accurate date, but then again, they could have been.

Three of her finance house rulers (Venus, Mars, Moon, ruling 2h, 8h and 11h respectively) form a natal Grand Water Trine.

 

[chad44]

This is the chart for the Aintree event which kicks off at 4pm today:

View attachment 2340


Ascendant is ruled by Mercury, found in Aries 8h, so a potent Mars/Pluto tone.
Moon is OOB, and in 10h, indicating that a favourite will win.

Several of the horses which "fit" the astrology in terms of Virgo chart rulership, are now off the finalised list.

There are several Mercury-themed names on the final list, but the one with the Aries overtone is "I Am Maximus", so that will be one of my picks for race winner (and is one of the favourites).

For the horse coming in 3rd, we have Scorpio rulership, where the POF also lies. The POF is trine to TransPluto, so it may be that this placement provides a good winnings.

I will put a fiver each on Foxy Jacks and Meeting of the Waters for third place, and see how that plays out (am totally willing to be a dismal failure at this, in order to participate in the Learning Curve).

As for Mars/Saturn on Descendant, this will be part of the Curve, to see what happens with this kind of thing on the angle. I am hoping this does not indicate a horse in distress.

See also the draconic chart - and conjunctions to natal (for example) to see if you can get more information.

 

[etherea]

See also the draconic chart - and conjunctions to natal (for example) to see if you can get more information.

Good call and yes, I had done that (for the chart below, as opposed to my natal chart - now you mention it, the Draco race chart in comparison to my natal showed some interesting contacts). I still would not have selected the 2nd and 3rd placements, even with that. I have thought about this and perhaps, had I used the ancient trad ruler of Libra (Saturn) for the tropical chart, I might have chosen Delta Work. I suppose the only association with the Scorpio cusp for Minella Indo is that it is a total mystery to me - perhaps that in and of itself IS the Scorpio element showing up, although in draco, 3h cusp is Libra, not Scorpio.

However, interestingly, the Taurus Jupiter/Uranus conjunction is conjunct draconic MC. I suppose that also fits "I Am Maximus", although my own connotation was with the film, Gladiator.

To me, the naming (I Am xxx) answered for the Mercury Asc, and the Maximus of the Gladiator film brought the Aries tone. These are the reasons it was one of my picks and only subsequently (at the betting shop) did I find out it was a favourite to win.

Here is the draco comparison between the race chart and the draco race chart:



Edited to add:
I just found out online that Minella was the name of a hotel in Ireland, after which the horse was named (it was the horse owner's family business, and all his horses have borne this name). Even with knowing this, I am not sure I would have correctly selected the right horse although with the draco chart, Libra falls on the 3h cusp rather than the 2nd, so Scorpio in the draco is IC/4h, so that is a family connection.

Maybe I should just stick to the winning horse placements, not the runners-up.

 

[joke n]

@joke n
This is interesting about the conjunction of Saturn/Pluto, as in other contexts, this would probably not be seen as a beneficial contact.

Saturn = timing, for sure, and was definitely showing up Big-Time in this chart.

Congrats, thats a start etherea

i see saturn in this chart more as ruler of the 5th house, and the profection ruler. thats also timing.
ruler of 5th conjunct pluto could also be someone who is more obsessive about gambling. guess he wont buy just one lottery ticket like i do.
the timing is also that the sec progr pluto now was exact conjunct ruler of the 5th as well. the promise, continued by all kinds of transits and other sec program planets. in contact with the prof ruler.
if you look at Wehrmans chart her 5th house ruler makes a connection to its dispositor, so strong. the same with my example. i see wehrman also has a connection to uranus in 2. sudden profits because of gambling.
When you look at Wehrmans chart she has POF in sag , and connected to its dispositor. so indeed the horses.
seems complicated to me if so many horses start at the same time. Is the technology explained somewhere?


I have another example of an AA chart where the person won big time. but there this (profection) method was not so strong as my first example.
all kinds of prim movements around venus and also lord 5, i will put this one here later.


a long time ago with a European Football Championship, we had someone on ADF who claimed he could identify the winner. I'm not sure if he got the technique from Frawley's book on sports and astrology. We then watched several matches. we, nor he, scored enough. it was difficult to determine who was the favorite. altough it was fun to follow the running asc/mc in the match.
but perhaps this technique should be used for the final match.
and when I see the you tube video, we didn't watch it this way either. at least we did. but our man with the big mouth wasnt also consistent in winning.
the most striking thing was that 2 matches were played simultaneously, at the same time and quite close in terms of location. same chart..
but soon we will be able to test this technique with more tools again.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

@etherea did you work with his methods ?

 

[joke n]

here is 2nd AA chart ; Bruce he won on 23-2-1993 26.7 million dollar

he has uranus and jupiter in the 5th house of gambling. ruler of the 5th is in the 1st angular, active. ( so ruler of 5, jupiter and uranus are interesting)
POF as well in 5th, and connected to its dispositor. with this chart, here the pof becomes the asc, and the dispositor is in turned 10. the pof also receives a trine from venus in turned 8th.
the ruler of the 5th also makes an inconjunct to venus in the natal chart. (venus also is important because of the 2nd house money, connected to gambling) .

profection year is taurus, placidus 2nd house with lord of the year venus..
prim -van dam- venus is inconjunct jupiter in 5
prim-van dam- pluto trine jupiter in 5.

sec ruler of the 5th just went opp the ASC
sec MC opp uranus in 5
sec desc conjunct BML in 8
sec saturn conjunct BML in 8

Solar Return
ruler of the 5th is in the same position as in the natal chart
SR NN conjunc natal MC, always an interesting year
SR mars conjunct natal jupiter and uranus in 5
natal position of venus , the profection lord, put in the SR chart gives an inconjunct to the moon. natal ruler of the 5th. also timing of the promise in the chart.

now the transits
tr venus, profection lord just is oob conjunct to ruler of the 5th. maybe the day he bought the lottery ticket ?
tr BML trine venus, ruler of the 2nd house. and profection lord

medieval; continuous profection x natal
themoon, ruler of the 5th opp natal sun
nnode conjunct ASC

not as nice as the previous. but enough going on....

 

[etherea]

Congrats, thats a start etherea

i see saturn in this chart more as ruler of the 5th house, and the profection ruler. thats also timing.
ruler of 5th conjunct pluto could also be someone who is more obsessive about gambling. guess he wont buy just one lottery ticket like i do.
the timing is also that the sec progr pluto now was exact conjunct ruler of the 5th as well. the promise, continued by all kinds of transits and other sec program planets. in contact with the prof ruler.
if you look at Wehrmans chart her 5th house ruler makes a connection to its dispositor, so strong. the same with my example. i see wehrman also has a connection to uranus in 2. sudden profits because of gambling.
When you look at Wehrmans chart she has POF in sag , and connected to its dispositor. so indeed the horses.
seems complicated to me if so many horses start at the same time. Is the technology explained somewhere?


I have another example of an AA chart where the person won big time. but there this (profection) method was not so strong as my first example.
all kinds of prim movements around venus and also lord 5, i will put this one here later.


a long time ago with a European Football Championship, we had someone on ADF who claimed he could identify the winner. I'm not sure if he got the technique from Frawley's book on sports and astrology. We then watched several matches. we, nor he, scored enough. it was difficult to determine who was the favorite. altough it was fun to follow the running asc/mc in the match.
but perhaps this technique should be used for the final match.
and when I see the you tube video, we didn't watch it this way either. at least we did. but our man with the big mouth wasnt also consistent in winning.
the most striking thing was that 2 matches were played simultaneously, at the same time and quite close in terms of location. same chart..
but soon we will be able to test this technique with more tools again.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

@etherea did you work with his methods ?

Hi @joke n
Thank you
Interesting post and no, I've not worked with Frawley's methods, but that book might just find its way onto my reading list I think that thread to which you refer was one of the few I never really delved into, but it was a long and involved one, if I recall correctly. Can you remember which member thought he could select the winner? I am sure that running Asc/MC must have been really fascinating - Astrology Live!!!

Also, in terms of learning about this, nobody has to wait very long. The answers are right there, quickly. One is either correct, or not. Boom, bang, done. Wehrmann did also recommend casting charts for the particular race-track (e.g. first ever race, if that data is available), as well as the first race of the season, and even the first race of the day, and comparing them to one's own natal. I assume she was thinking that some race-tracks will favour some astrologers in their endeavours, more than others.

yes, I agree about Wehrmann and her connection with horses - very strong in her chart, although she did write that she also applied her same method to the casino in Vegas, and even a slot machine, with similarly successful results. Her methods are in her book "Winning!" - there are .pdf versions on many sites (scribd is one), so it is easily found. Your point about the POF is interesting, too, as she did claim this was a key point to take into account. She tightened her orbs over time, too.

With reference to your point about how she can work out which horse will win when so many are running, her method is basically that you look at the Asc + ruler and see how it is aspected, in what sign, etc. I put my example above, e.g. Virgo Ascendant, ruler Mercury conjunct Sun in Aries, so labelling/naming (Mercury), military/warrior tone (Aries) and "out there", bold and brazen (Sun). There won't be too many horses (in other races) that can share the astro details in that way, so that is how she narrowed it down so well.

I see where I fell a bit short on the 2nd and 3rd places as I had slightly mis-applied her technique for those placements: I was looking at the house cusp rulers and working it out from there with house cusps as per chart given, but she specifically states that one uses the 2h cusp as the new Ascendant (turned charts, in other words). This possibly changes the house in which the ruler is found and influence (via house) of any possible aspects, giving better clues. So, this will be part of my fine-tuning when I try it next time.

Yes, it's good to test out these theories. So far, I am on board with her, and I would hazard a guess that Frawley also fine-tuned his technique via the application of many, many charts over a long time, so all these writers/astrologers are worth reading on the topic and I suppose in terms of horary, it can only add to one's skill in that direction.

Tantalisingly, Wehrmann also mentions other astrologers who were using their own techniques at the races, and I would love to come across some of those to compare to her method.

 

[etherea]

In your second lottery winner example chart, I noticed also that co-rulers of natal 5th are in a tight trine.
Transiting NN at the top of the chart (and natal NN, too, in 10h), so very prominent nodal energy.

Natally, another chart with that anaretic degree of Cancer being accented, with Jupiter in this case.

Yes, a lot going on, indeed: did you check out whether TransPluto (h48) was activated in any way?

 

[joke n]

do you mean with h 48 ? harmonics ?

the only thing i saw tr pluto was doing was a sextile to cheiron in 11th house. and made a yod to the IC.
prim-van dam- cheiron was exact on the ASC
and prim -van dam ASC made a trine to cheiron.

the family lived rock bottom;
American lottery winner, who, on 23 February 1993, won a $26.7 million jackpot in Dennis Port, MA. He collected the first payment the following day, riding in a limo and still in a state of shock. He and his wife, Donna, had been living on the wages of her job as a cashier as he was an out-of-work apprentice plumber. He had only worked briefly for the past two years and they were living from month-to-month, as well as struggling with an old car. To top all of that off, they had to meet the needs of three kids, 15 months, seven, and eight years old. The couples win was the third largest in Massachusetts Lottery history. (ADB)

i would love to see how you work out the technique of Wehrman. the next time you use it. step by step.
horse racing is typical english, isnt it ? were do you see it in the UK chart ?

the european championship thread was on the dutch section from ADF . they did quit that section some time ago. i am not sure if that man was dutch or german who claimed that he was able to make the perfect bet. i remember a german guy who had also a lot of hubris, and was funny too. it was the same energy.
but i also want to look closer to the Frawley method. first i want to look if the first steps of the you tube video make any sense..

 

[etherea]

h48 = TransPluto

 

[etherea]

i would love to see how you work out the technique of Wehrman. the next time you use it. step by step.
horse racing is typical english, isnt it ? were do you see it in the UK chart ?

I am planning to place a bet of some sort for a race that falls on this coming Friday evening or Saturday afternoon, which would mean that the Jupiter/Uranus conjunction was applying (exact a few hours later on Sunday) so if I do manage to get it all together in time, I will definitely write out how I am making my decision.

Ref. the UK fondness for horse-racing, yes - it does seem to be very popular. I favour the 1066 chart and in that chart, 6h Jupiter is in 7Virgo 56, widely trine Uranus 28Sag26 in 9h; also trine natal 10h Sun/MC conjunction at 9Cap55/8Cap42. 9h of course has the Sagittarius/equine correspondence, so I would say that is it. However, the Sun/MC trine Jupiter is about the fondness of the monarchy for racing and the ranks of 'society' are very led by that.

It is interesting that the natal 6h/9h Jupiter/Uranus equine signature echoes the upcoming Taurus Ju/Ur conjunction,

I will also take a look at the Frawley video you posted, soon-ish.

And an amazing story about the plumber and his family. Perhaps his struggle was what Chiron on Ascendant was indicating - what a solution!!!