Sedna into Gemini mid June '23 – World-Split?

[xphi.]

One of my hypotheses around astrology is that Sedna would since its discovery in 2003/2004 have a similar role than Pluto had in the 20th century since its discovery in 1930, namely set the general theme for the times, as also before Neptune did since 1946 and Uranus since 1781.

This hypothesis is based on essentially two more general hypotheses, namely the hypothesis that astrology as practiced today and observed to work would be mainly shaped by humanity (collectively/unconsciously), at least considerably more so than purely by objects in space, and by the hypthesis that the first object (or at least the first round object - rounded by gravity) discovered from a realm further out would be (collectively/unconsciously) chosen to define the times until the next such discovery, even if the object was not the only major object in that realm nor necessarily the largest or heaviest one. Last time I looked, Pluto was observed to be slighly smaller than Eris, but Pluto potentially a little bit heavier, and of course there are many more objects in similar orbits, as discovered since about 2002.

Now, assuming the hypothesis regarding Sedna was true, Sedna would be the most important object to look at in terms of also mundane events, so Sedna entering Gemini after having been in Taurus since its discovery would be a major change for the world.

What would you expect with Sedna moving into Gemini?

Before I get to that, let me note that new objects got domiciles assigned over time. And so far it was backwards from the slowest traditional planet to faster ones:

Uranus got/took Aquarius from Saturn
Neptune got/took Pisces from Jupiter
Pluto got/took Scorpio from Mars

and accordingly it would be (in the hypothesis):

Sedna would have gotten/taken (Libra or Taurus?) from Venus...

The myths around Sedna, where she is described as a very beautiful woman, are maybe not conclusive regarding Libra or Taurus. I would tend towards rather Libra than Taurus, but am not sure...

In any case, Sedna would have been placed very well in Taurus (and still is), and this might mirror all the "Kardashians" and generally stardom in social media that is often first and foremost based on being femal, on being beautiful rather than based on any specialized skill like acting or singing. The maybe first such celebrity was Paris Hilton, whose sex tape "leaked" just around the discovery of Sedna, and Kim Kardashian, friends with Paris Hilton at least at the time (I think), had also a sex tape "leaked" not so much later.

On the mundane level, one thing that seems significant, would be that money had become very important since about 2003, economic power more important than military one, at least more so than in the past, and also some Plutonian people lost their power (up to #MeToo).

Now, with Sedna in Gemini, I would expect trade to still be important, but it does appear like a split of the world into two economic blocks could be the result. There are obviously already signs of this happening since a few years. One resulting block would be North America, Europe, Australia, Japan/Korea, the other China/Russia. And there would be some countries where it is not so clear, yet, where they would end up, like India or countries on the southern hemisphere. South Africa, for example, is currently performing joint military drills with China and Russia...

(Side remark regarding Ukraine: Take a look at the currently active Mars return of Putin (ADB) which has been active since roughly when there was the gigantic volcano eruption near Tonga in the South Pacific in January 2022, and will be active until 31 Dec of this year. If that was a major influence, do not expect the tone of the war to change in the Ukraine before 2024.)

 

[etherea]

Interesting thoughts, @xphi

If Sedna had a Venus parallel, then we might see either the negative side of that in Gemini (shallowness in speech, thought, media, not wishing to look beneath the surfaces of what is presented, all at the level of a party), or the positive (poetry, literature, public relations extending to more than words, good manners, diplomacy rather than war-talk, etc.)

Ref. the economic bloc idea, it is true that BRICS is developing rapidly, and they have created (and have many subscribers) a SWIFT payment system alternative, as well as creating military alliances, and there are countries waiting to join. The initiating countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) comprised something like 42% of the global population. Adding more populations via countries joining would give them a huge say in the global balance of power.

Venus also has associations with money, so the financial settlement system above is also a big change.

Incidentally, this ingress of Sedna coincides with Pluto in Aquarius, so the two will be in trine.

There was a lengthy discussion on Sedna on ADF, and the general outcome of the story (in the myth) was that she underwent searing pain on many levels, being abducted, rejected, betrayed, etc. It will be interesting to see if these themes appear in the wider context. Pluto has his reputation of being the abductor, of course.

 

[Roman H.]

These are very interesting thoughts.
Pluto has an impressive impact in my natal. As all outer planets have, all rx. My chart would be completely different without the outer planets. Pluto conjunct my moon the most. Sedna has no such impact. 3 degress orb conj. my sun. I identify with her very much, but it wouldn't change my chart. Look for charts with Moon conjunct Sedna (up to 5 degrees orb).

I looked for Sedna changing signs, also tropical signs. I can't see much impact. Though I would love to give her more impact.

 

[roja]

Could the split be about who remains on the boat and who is thrown overboard?

For anyone that has seen the movie “Don’t Worry Darling”, I wonder if the Sedna myth relates to one of the film’s issues centering around that part of us that desires to transcend the “reality” offered to us because of a deeper knowing that it is ultimately not real and hence “never being good enough”, and the resulting anger of the “orchestrators” of that “reality” for feeling disrespected by those individuals that are then considered unappreciative and ungrateful for the protection and containment their orchestrated reality provides.

A kind of amalgam with the myths of Lilith and Psyche with Eros, as well.

The way I understand, with:

Uranus ruling Aquarius and
Neptune ruling Pisces

It makes sense to me that Pluto then “rules” Aries - but from this perspective, this rulership relates to the “orchestration” of reality as referred to above. The hands pulling the strings behind the puppet-show.

Going with this ordering, I wonder if Sedna then has some “rulership” of Taurus and what this could mean and relate to. Issues of value systems on a soul level that are the determinant or contributory factor to our soul’s necessity to incarnate here on Earth, and thus the deeper spiritual lessons that are necessitated, and necessitate the underlying bottom-line motivating factors for our incarnation(s) - Pluto?

However, I also think that once we get to these trans-Neptunian bodies, their archetypal functions cannot be definitively contained within or prescribed to singular zodiacal rulership.

 

[etherea]

that's a good thought - the spiritual side of us that societally, we reject. Makes sense.

I also agree the import cannot be sufficiently contained in one astrological morsel. A wider application is definitely wiser to consider, even if we cannot be entirely sure where it begins and ends.

There is a possible political correlative, though - and I will start a new thread on it, which is the Epstein thing.

Sedna was the young girl, taken for mating/marriage against her wishes, and all her interests were set aside for the powerful 'others'.

We know that the Epstein lists have been un-sealed, so there we have it: Gemini is about communication. The trine between Sedna and Pluto in late Capricorn ties up with Epstein's Sun (very late Capricorn).

Oddly enough, I have seen on social media the mention of a submarine log also, for Maxwell's sub, so more names there, and that also really, really ties up with the Sedna myth.

 

[xphi.]

The Sedna myth is quite "phallic", in the immediate sense because in the arctic having a streamlined body means less surface per volume, thus less loss of heat at the surface. But Freud would likely also have interpreted it along this:

The husband she was given that turned out to have a "beak" (a "bird") may indicate that she was married very young (or maybe also related to arctic conditions where you rarely ever see someone without clothes?). The part with the cut fingers could be seen as detachment from the father as "first love", moving on instead to many men represented by the resulting "submarines" of seals, fish, birds... Certainly also relates a lot to Pluto, or also how to overcome Pluto, coming from experience as subject to transgressions, the fates/lives of women at least in the past, but in many instances still today.

I think that is also mirrored in society in recent years, from individual men who have less power to suppress women to at larger scales Russia's Putin whose atomic phallic rockets, submarines, etc. do not immediately give him supreme power any more, nor power to Russia itself to "conquer" the beautiful lady Ukraine with access to the sea... With the sea and age-old female experience, Sedna reminds also of the last/oldest water sign Pisces, where Venus is traditionally exalted at 27° Pisces, where she was just a few days ago, and hey, she apparently just entered Aries as I am finishing this post (the stuff below already written a few minutes ago)...

According to one of my hypotheses, with astrology to first order a creation of humanity or at least of nature on earth, newly discovered objects would generally be expected to fit contemporary and future events better than ones in the past (except maybe for larger/brighter objects like Uranus/Neptune or Vesta that eagles and the like could see without telescopes), so going back in history related to Sedna might not reveal so much. But that her first entry into Taurus was in 1965 might still relate to sexual liberation that started pretty precisely in the mid 1960s.

About 20 years back in Usenet there was someone who related military a lot to Libra, and I think there is something to that. Contrary to an individual warrior, in a military you usually need Saturn (exalted in Libra) to structure the individiuals towards collective goals, and maybe Venus might be part of the needed "coherence", but I have not thought on much along those lines. Note also, as astrologers often mention, that Helena, Paris' reward for giving Aphrodite/Venus precendence in terms of beauty against Hera and Athena, was thus both related to Venus and the "cause" for a big war.

In terms of Sedna with potential domicile in Libra, a shift in warfare towards more drones etc. might fit well, all kinds of small moving often streamlined vessels that buzz around and hopefully in the end mainly destroy each other but no longer human lives, just as toys for men?

I guess both Venus (one domicile Taurus) and Mercury (one domicile Gemini) are romantic, because they only show up in the sky close to sunrise and sunset, close to the horizon. So, Sedna into Gemini could give romatic poetry, songs, etc. a real boost, and also maybe for a change "real" journalism again, and also maybe "real" diplomacy again?

 

[Roman H.]

My thinking is rather, that at his time, now, looking good on social networks IS an asset. It's about producing a good image/picture. And knowing or feeling what that is. Lighting, clothes, filters, all artifical, surface. But not only. It is about a (beautiful and authentic) reality to shine through. Who is not adept to that, has no idea what a picture can do. This 1 portrait out of 700 photographs taken within a 2 hour-session. No software or filter can do this. The Sedna story is krass. Mainly about betrayal and egoism of others. Sedna lacked obviously a mother to teach her how to find a good husband. This mother was absent, maybe because she left her husband (and her daughter, too! I won't speculate about the reasons. But it's not that young woman's /child's fault anyway = too young).
My idea from your thoughts was, that Sedna may have much more impact, maybe much more implemented, her themes, in the collective subconcious, for the generations who came after her 2003 discovery. The environment theme.
Anyway, as she is in the same sign for long, at the moment about 2 generations (usually much longer), who could tell more of Sedna would be the ones with the most individual aspects, either ASC/DSC or Moon conjunct Sedna.


P.S.: My opinion is, that there are no specific "phallic" myths. If you go into details first you oversee the whole story. But that's everybody's individual approach,one is no better than the other. I understand Sedna's story from the first, what went wrong. That her father married her to a man, who did no one know.

 

[xphi.]

Anyway, as she is in the same sign for long, at the moment about 2 generations (usually much longer), who could tell more of Sedna would be the ones with the most individual aspects, either ASC/DSC or Moon conjunct Sedna.

Sedna was at about 18° Taurus around its discovery, already quite close to my n.node at 21° Taurus (in 11), so was a long transit across my n.node, in which I wrote very little on my website (although quite a bit in Usenet and later in the astro.com forum), maybe in a way mirroring less personal fingers to type on my site (the fingers that Sedna lost) and more collective ones for writing in forums (11th house, the seals and other animals that her fingers became)...? I started to write more on my website starting from about 2015 with Sedna at 24.x° Taurus, and the first book in summer 2016, while now seems more like a shift to less overall, to more just waiting on the ground of the ocean for people to dive down...

 

[Roman H.]

Hm, xphi, more than 1 second orb I would not count for fixed stars, and Sedna not much more. In natal charts.
Sedna transits, as these will, too, would hit at least all people born on the same day like you.... and if they not hit moon or ac/dc, as these are the most individual factors... the same is for transits meeting planets/points.
Feel your hair being combed now and then

 

[xphi.]

I guess you meant one degree above for fixed stars , but anyways, to be consistent with the hypothesis I use larger orbs for Sedna when exploring, same as for the planets moon to Pluto, so personally (using Liz Greene's orbs) 10° for conjunctions, and seems at least to me to be so that orbs larger than one degree would have an effect with Sedna, similarly to moon to Pluto, but as always in astrology difficult to be really sure...

 

[Roman H.]

No, I meant 1 second, as they move so slowly. The fixed stars. And Sedna similarly. I know, usually 1 degree. Wider orbs only for ASC/DSC and moon.
Exploring with wider orbs of Sedna makes only sense with ASC/DSC and moon conjunctions really. And transits even more.
Not combing your hair anymore ...

 

[xphi.]

If you live near Zürich in Switzerland, there is currently an exhibition about Sedna at the "North American Native Museum", until 17 September....

English: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/kultur/en/index/institutionen/native_american_and_inuit_cultures.html
Deutsch: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/kultur/de/index/institutionen/nonam_indianer_inuit_kulturen.html

20 years ago, the sea goddess Sedna made her first appearance at NONAM. Now she is back - as the main character of the anniversary exhibition about art, culture and climate change in the Arctic. With the Cerny Inuit Collection, NONAM is celebrating 20 years in the Seefeld and 60 years as a museum. Sedna is one of the most significant figures in the cosmos of the Inuit and other polar cultures. As the mother of the sea creatures, she decides whether people go hungry or get full. Her myths and legends are as varied as the people who tell them. In art she appears sometimes as a hunting ruler, at other times caught in a fishing net. She stands for mythical times as well as for the great challenges of the present.

The museum is near Tiefenbrunnen, which litterally means "deep fountain", on the sunny/rich side of the lake, actually quite close to the Astrodienst Villa, and just a few steps behind a street that has some kind of "Riviera" feeling with some Italian Restaurants in the evening sun, and yet a quite different world around the musuem, more in the shadows...

 

[Roman H.]

Sorry, I wrote nonsense with 1 second orb

Keyword: deep sea exploitation

 

[xphi.]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/10/iran-saudi-arabia-agree-restore-ties-china-talks

Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two great oil-producing rivals of the Middle East, have agreed to restore ties and reopen embassies seven years after relations were severed.

The agreement came after Chinese-brokered talks held in Beijing. “As a result of the talks, Iran and Saudi Arabia agreed to resume diplomatic relations and reopen embassies … within two months,” Iran’s state news agency Irna reported, citing a joint statement.

Here is a chart for yesterday noon for Riad without houses, with focus on aspects to Sedna.



Ongoing are the trine to Pluto and the square to Saturn, plus there are a trine to Ceres, octiles (semi-squares) to the Jupiter/Chiron conjunction, and a semi-sextile to Juno.

Note that Pluto-Sedna-Ceres form a grand trine.

(Note also that in January 2022 at the grand volcano eruption near Tonga and also close to Putin-ADB's most recent Mars return, there was a conjunction of Sedna, Ceres and n.node already in late Taurus, so the trine of Ceres to Sedna might mirror a certain "boost" to Russia in the war in the Ukraine.)

Independently of what whether the symbolic story behind these developments might be majorly shaped by Sedna or not, since also China is involved so much, it seems like it might be a good idea for at least some astrologers in the "West" to get better aquainted with Chinese astrology (beyond the usual assignments of zodiac signs and Wu Xing ("Chinese elements", but at their roots rather planets Mercury-Saturn) to years and down to double hours)?

PS: Regarding the last paragraph: Pisces is among other things about seeing the world from the perspective of others, and with Saturn now in Pisces that is something that now immediately lacks, but also something worth to build up, create solid knowledge, step-by-step. My Saturn is in the last degree of Pisces, and in way that universal spot is something I am trying to reproduce with some kind of "Lego" version, tiny bricks still visible, hence also the structure quite well known, but also already close to the real thing, at least hopefully...

 

[etherea]

The notion of the world split is something that is already underway, @xphi, with BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, and more countries wishing to join them, plus their own payment system and from what I have also read, a new currency), so I think you are correct.

The real question is: what will relations be like between the two?

For sure, it has been a very materialistic couple of decades and also, some strides in female integration into varying workplace sectors at senior level, have increased.

I suppose we might need to do a bit more distillation on the import of Sedna overall, to more easily identify themes that might apply as she passes into Gemini.

Do you have her discovery chart, please? That might provide us with some of those themes, or at least, clues to those themes.

 

[xphi.]

I can give some information related to the discovery of Sedna, while at least to me it seems difficult to pinpoint a single "discovery chart", as discovery took some time...

Sedna Discovery Image

These three panels show the first detection of the faint distant object dubbed 'Sedna.' Imaged on November 14th from 6:32 to 9:38 Universal Time, Sedna was identified by the slight shift in position noted in these three pictures taken at different times.

www.jpl.nasa.gov

These three panels show the first detection of the faint distant object dubbed "Sedna." Imaged on November 14th from 6:32 to 9:38 Universal Time, Sedna was identified by the slight shift in position noted in these three pictures taken at different times.

The year was 2003, and the photos were taken at the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory (near San Diego CA).

I presume the photos were not taken by a human but rather a computer program, and probably it was also a computer that selected candidates for a moving body, but I am not sure about the details. Since this was almost 20 years ago, maybe there was more manual work involved than would be today. So I am not sure when the first human lay eyes on these photos.

But even if you look at the three photos, you cannot be sure whether it is rather a close and slow object or rather one that is further out and faster, also depending on the direction of movement (perpendicular to earth or towards or away from earth). Without more data you cannot deduce that it is an object relatively far in an orbit around the sun.

90377 Sedna - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Follow-up observations were made in November–December 2003 with the SMARTS (Small and Medium Research Telescope System) at Cerro Tololo Inter-American Observatory in Chile, the Tenagra IV telescope in Nogales, Arizona, and the Keck Observatory on Mauna Kea in Hawaii. Combined with precovery observations taken at the Samuel Oschin telescope in August 2003, and by the Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking consortium in 2001–2002, these observations allowed accurate determination of its orbit. The calculations showed that the object was moving along a distant highly eccentric orbit, at a distance of 90.3 AU from the Sun.

So not sure from which point in time on, first humans would have been quite certain about the nature of the object from its orbit and thus approximate size. (Maybe already in November 2003, maybe only quite some time later, maybe only shortly before making public announcements.)

The announcement of the discovery was 15 March 2004, see the homepage of Michael Brown at Caltech, apparently pretty much unchanged since the times:

https://web.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/sedna/

On 15 March 2004, astronomers from Caltech, Gemini Observatory, and Yale University announced the discovery of the coldest, most distant object known to orbit the sun.

Related to me, Sedna appeared close to my n.node in Taurus (and the n.node was also there in transit), and subsequently there was a very long transit of many years by Sedna over my n.node, in which I remember very clearly, I could not do much in terms of my research except that when I was doing things then maybe "deeper" and more minimal than before, and in spring 2004 I made my most important discovery.

I guess there was already something to be felt in autumn 2003, I remember that at the Usenet newsgroup alt.astrology.moderated there were more fights than usual when the sun was in Scorpio, but that may also have had other reasons.

Presumably there is anyways a similarity with Pisces, with the ocean, announcement with the sun in Pisces, discovery with the sun near the south node, etc.

(Just in case: All I do is just pinpoint, I am not doing research regarding Sedna...)

 

[Roman H.]

Ephemeris of Sedna (2003 VB12, minor planet #90377)

This page is one of many thousand pages at Astrodienst's website. Get your free horoscope - and much more! Astrodienst AG in Zürich, Switzerland provides the world's best astrology site for free horoscopes, professional astrological reports and information about astrology.

www.astro.com

Folgen von Tiefseebodenbergbau noch nicht abzusehen

Bis zum Sommer muss die Internationale Meeresbodenbehörde über den kommerziellen Tiefseebergbau entscheiden. Dabei ist noch relativ unbekannt, was der Bergbau für die Ökosysteme dort bedeutet. Von Y. Appelhans.

www.tagesschau.de

The Mining Industry’s Next Frontier Is Deep, Deep Under the Sea

Companies are diving to the bottom to scoop up metals essential for our EV-driven future. But how much ocean are we willing to sacrifice?

www.wired.com

Home Page - The Metals Company

metals.co

 

[annait]

I hadn't known before that Sedna originally had a nickname when she was discovered: namely "the flying Dutchman".
So if you pay attention to the first sighting, then it would be also of interest to pay attention to the first spontaneous naming..
..especially since the field of "Dutchman" can contribute a lot to the Sedna stories.

Flying Dutchman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fliegender Holländer (Sage) – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

In the german wiki is a quote from Heinrich Heine, where he describes exactly what the Sedna in the sea is like:

„[…] auf der unermeßlichen Wasserwüste die unerhörtesten Leiden erdulden müsse, wie sein Leib nichts anderes sei als ein Sarg von Fleisch, worin seine Seele sich langweilt, wie das Leben ihn von sich stößt und auch der Tod ihn abweist: gleich einer leeren Tonne, die sich die Wellen einander zuwerfen und sich spottend einander zurückwerfen, so werde der arme Holländer zwischen Tod und Leben hin und her geschleudert, keins von beiden wolle ihn behalten; sein Schmerz sei tief wie das Meer, worauf er herumschwimmt, sein Schiff sei ohne Anker und sein Herz ohne Hoffnung.“[38]

"[...] had to endure the most incredible sufferings on the immeasurable desert of water, how his body was nothing but a coffin of flesh, in which his soul was bored, how life pushed him away and even death rejected him: like an empty barrel , which the waves throw at each other and throw each other back mockingly, the poor Dutchman is thrown back and forth between death and life, neither of them wants to keep him; let his pain be as deep as the sea on which he swims, his ship without anchor and his heart without hope."[38]

I don't know where overall, but some (also Heinrich Heine) add the theme of the ghostletters, may be for mark a subjectiv timeline, where there is none anymore or never there was (sure not in Sedna, which is a myth):

Ein Sondermotiv stellen die Briefe dar: Manchmal lässt der Fliegende Holländer ein Beiboot zu Wasser und eine Geisterhand überstellt Briefe, die – wie sich später herausstellt – sich alle an längst Verstorbene richten. Die Briefe muss man besonders behandeln (an den Mast nageln, verbrennen etc.), weil sonst ein Unglück geschieht. Überhaupt gilt die Begegnung mit dem Fliegenden Holländer als düsteres Omen und kündet den Untergang des Schiffs oder wenigstens ein bevorstehendes großes Unglück für seine Mannschaft an.

The letters are a special motif: sometimes the Flying Dutchman launches a dinghy and a ghostly hand delivers letters that – as it later turns out – are all addressed to long dead people. The letters have to be treated in a special way (nailed to the pole, burned, etc.), because otherwise an accident will happen. In general, the encounter with the Flying Dutchman is considered a gloomy omen and heralds the sinking of the ship or at least an impending great misfortune for its crew.

This reminds me to my important transit to the South Node in Taurus. This was around 1992-94, when my father got ill and died.
In my childhood he was quite absent allways and later we met rarely, but his death knocked me down and I falled in a quite deep depression afterwords.

 

[annait]

I had in mind that something like Sedna was also in the Pentamerone. And today I finally found the fairy tale that comes closest to the details, which her characterisizes most. Maybe through the letters in the "Flying Dutchman".

Pentamerone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Penta of the Chopped-off Hands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here is the young woman, Penta, the one who cuts off her own hands for escape her brother.. He than puts her in a coffin and throws this in the sea.
Here begins her adventure, which will her bring almost to death by the letters full of lies of a jealous fisher's wife.
Penta can do nothing for helping herself. She depends in everything to the cure of others. And the others, who meet her directly, keep her with them. Or help her to escape.
Everything at the end comes to the right place by a reward for the one who can tell the worst story.

 

[Diem11]

The astrologers of the Fourteenth Century pointed to the triple conjunction of Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars in Aquarius as the signifier of the Great Black Death Pandemic they were living through. They had no way of knowing that Sedna was there as a fourth body. Aquarius, like Gemini, is an air sign.